Ham-boned Arguments

For friends and readers: I have altitude sickness. I've spent my life at sea level, and now I'm in the mile high city. Kid doesn't seem to be having too many troubles, fortunately. He's got a stuffy nose but that's about all. I, on the other hand, feel like my very bones are tired, and getting out of bed takes a lot of energy. On the plus side, I'm much better off emotionally here in Denver, so what's a little altitude sickness?

Viking is over a lot, and he plays video games for the Kid (who loves to watch but keeps saying, "My turn? My turn?" till he gets the controller, and then just makes the guy run around in circles.) Once I'm feeling better, I'll return to making YouTube videos (though probably not at quite the same rate, since Kid is out of school till he starts Kindergarten in the fall.) [Edit: I made one today.] With all that said, let's move on to an apologetic. (Once I'm feeling better, and once the Kid is in school, I'll go back to writing childhood trauma stories.)

Separation of Christianity and State
by Ken Ham, Answers in Genesis

Almost all Americans have heard the phrase “separation of church and state.” It has been used as something of a club to “beat down” and eliminate Christianity from public places, including symbols (like crosses), disallow Bible reading and prayer in public schools, and stop the teaching of creation in science classes.

When dealing with Ken Ham, it's important to remember that he won't let one lie per sentence suffice. Separation of church and state is beneficial both to the state and to the church. It has in no way been used as a club to "beat down" Christianity. Its purpose is to stop Christianity (or whatever other religion like Islam becomes dominant) from beating down the rest of us and our free and civil society. The church doesn't step in and tell government what to do, and the government doesn't step in and tell church what to do. It's a win-win situation, but not to Ken Ham.

Christianity has hardly been "eliminated" from public spaces. Tim Tebow's running around the football field with John 3:16 in his eye black. There are street preachers in every college town in the country, railing against the sins of getting an education and having a good time. There are Christian prayer meetings in the Pentagon (something which would make our founding fathers turn in their graves, if their bodies were still animate.)

Bible reading and prayer in public schools have not (and never will be) disallowed. State mandated prayers that everyone in school must say, directed to the Christian god and violating the freedom of religion for every child in the school, are no longer allowed. But individual students and groups of students can pray - at lunch, before an athletic event, or at the flagpole. I was in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes when I attended public school, and we met on school grounds during school hours on club days.

Crosses and other religious displays are permitted on any private property, just not on government property, because that's space we all share (and we don't all share your religion.) And creation isn't taught in science class because it isn't science. The fact that you consider this an element of a Christian "beat down" betrays the whole "Intelligent Design isn't *religious!*" outrage your own side tries so desperately to drum up. You cannot claim it is science, supported on its own merits, and simultaneously claim that it is religious persecution to not allow you to lie to children in government funded schools.

Now, where does the phrase “separation of church and state” come from? It is not a part of the original U.S. Constitution of 1787, as most people falsely believe, or in any of its amendments. In reality, the idea of a “wall of separation” between church and state came from a private letter from President Thomas Jefferson, and it has sadly been misused to slowly, but surely, eliminate Christianity from the public sector—and replace it with an anti-God religion.

The phrase "separation of church and state" did indeed appear in Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. James Madison also wrote, "Strongly guarded... is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." (Since these guys basically wrote the thing, I think it's safe to believe them on what their intentions were.) Here's more from Americans United for a Separation of Church and State:

At the time he wrote the letter, Jefferson was under fire from conservative religious elements who hated his strong stand for full religious liberty. Jefferson saw his response to the Danbury Baptists as an opportunity to clear up his views on church and state. Far from being a mere courtesy, the letter represented a summary of Jefferson's thinking on the purpose and effect of the First Amendment's religion clauses.

Jefferson's Danbury letter has been cited favorably by the Supreme Court many times. In its 1879 Reynolds v. U.S. decision the high court said Jefferson's observations "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In the court's 1947 Everson v. Board of Education decision, Justice Hugo Black wrote, "In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and state.'" It is only in recent times that separation has come under attack by judges in the federal court system who oppose separation of church and state."

Now that we've cleared up the history and its relevance, we need to address Ken Ham's fear-mongering deceit. There is no anti-God religion powerfully taking over the nation. This is not Soviet Russia and secular humanists are not the "militant atheists" you imagine - not even as anti-theist humanists. Humanism: it's a good thing.

The Establishment Clause in the First Amendment was intended to protect the church from the (federal) government, not the government from the church. Therefore, no “national” church or religion is allowed to be established by the federal government.

Here we're talking about intention. Intention is not the same as interpretation, and if we want to know what the authors of the Constitution thought, we have only to look at their public and private statements on the matter about their intentions. (Yes, people sometimes lie about intentions, but it's extremely doubtful the founding fathers would have lied about their intentions for the Constitution.) Ken here has no evidence of the founders intentions - just assertions. So allow me to provide the relevant data points.

Unembarrassed by attachments to noble families, hereditary lines and successions, or any considerations of royal blood, even the pious mystery of holy oil had no more influence than that other of holy water: the people universally were too enlightened to be imposed on by artifice; and their leaders, or more properly followers, were men of too much honour to attempt it. Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favour of the rights of mankind.
- President John Adams "A Defense of Government of the United States of America (1787-88)

The settled opinion here is, that religion is essentially distinct from civil Government, and exempt from its cognizance; that a connection between them is injurious to both;
- James Madison; Letter to Edward Everett, March 18, 1823

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-- President Thomas Jefferson: in letter to Alexander von Humboldt, December 6, 1813

There are many more, with a good sampling here. What was that again Ken?

I will highlight key words of the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . .

You can see that the “separation of church and state” phrase is nowhere in the Amendment (or the rest of the Constitution).

God is also nowhere in the Constitution. Neither are Jesus or Christianity. It's a secular document, composed by liberal Enlightenmnet era Christians and Deists (and possibly a few atheists.) And as for the words themselves not appearing in the Constitution, I turn once again to the Americans United for a Separation of Church and State.

As eminent church-state scholar Leo Pfeffer notes in his book, Church, State and Freedom, "It is true, of course, that the phrase 'separation of church and state' does not appear in the Constitution. But it was inevitable that some convenient term should come into existence to verbalize a principle so clearly and widely held by the American people....[T]he right to a fair trial is generally accepted to be a constitutional principle; yet the term 'fair trial' is not found in the Constitution. To bring the point even closer home, who would deny that 'religious liberty' is a constitutional principle? Yet that phrase too is not in the Constitution. The universal acceptance which all these terms, including 'separation of church and state,' have received in America would seem to confirm rather than disparage their reality as basic American democratic principles."

And now let's see Ken's version...

The 1802 letter from Jefferson was sent to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut in response to the group’s letter to him. Jefferson was trying to assure the Baptists that the federal government would never be permitted to interfere with the church. In fact, in his letter, Jefferson states:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

And what about this aren't you getting, Ken? Jefferson was saying that you can't stop gay marriage because your Bible calls it an abomination - that the government should only legislate on actions which are deleterious, and not on beliefs which are held. He's talking about the kind of government I want.

Today, secular scholars have lifted the Danbury letter out of its entire historical context and have turned the so-called “wall” metaphor completely on its head.
“Separation of church and state” is now used to protect the government from the influence of the church—establishing a policy of freedom “from” religion, which in reality has become “separation of Christianity and state.” This would have been an entirely foreign and unintended concept to the Founding Fathers.

No, that would not have been foreign or unintended. To wit,

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797

Yeah, this isn't a Christian nation, and our laws aren't based on the Bible or on Christianity (which might be why they make no reference to either!) Let's see what Thomas Jefferson, coiner of the phrase, had to say about separation of church and state in a speech he gave to Virginia Baptists in 1808.

Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.

We have solved ... the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.

I think I've demonstrated good evidence for my case - that the founders intended for this to be a nation of no government religion, separation of church and state, and free exercise of religion for those who choose it. Let's see what Ham-bone has to support his case.

This misrepresentation of the Constitution was witnessed once again as I attended a debate in March, in which Rev. Barry Lynn, a liberal minister, lawyer, and the head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, spoke. Not only did he argue for separation, but claimed that government “neutrality” towards Christianity was his group’s aim. Sadly, most Americans (Christians included) have also been duped into believing that the so-called “separation of church and state” requires eliminating the Christian God and creating a neutral situation. But there is no such position as neutrality. Indeed, one is either for Christ or against Him (Matthew 12:30)!

Even the other Christians are against me! I'm in the minority, so I must be right! Ahem. We've amped up the pressure here now, haven't we? Suddenly Reverend Barry Lynn is against Him? Now Ken Ham has determined that the only way to be for Jesus is to be for a government run by churches (and you know clergy, like him.) Never mind, for the moment, what the Constitution has to say about such things. I don't remember JESUS ever saying anything about running the government! Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher, pretty unconcerned with earthly things. He was all "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" and "sell all that you have, give the money to the poor." That's not the same as "elect Sarah Palin" and "keep people ignorant of science, fight life saving medical advancements, and deny women the right to bodily autonomy." It certainly isn't, "Go shoot up the brown people for their oil."

The religion of naturalism (atheism) has been imposed on the public education system, and on the culture as a whole. For instance, science textbooks in the public schools now typically define science as naturalism (atheism):

Science requires repeatable observations and testable hypotheses. These standards restrict science to a search for natural causes for natural phenomena . . . . Supernatural explanations of natural events are simply outside the bounds of science.

This is the "non overlapping magisteria" argument, which Richard Dawkins discusses at length in "The God Delusion" (which I am just now finally reading. Thanks again to Lee from St. Louis for the atheist library!) I think what it is saying, very politely, is that the supernatural is not observable, repeatable, or testable because there is no evidence any of it actually exists. And of course, the way you would verify if something supernatural did exist would be through science. It's a very good way of determining whether or not a claim is true, and religion just folds.

Getting back to Ken's original lies: Atheism is not a religion. I did a whole video on it. Atheism is not naturalism, at least not in any religious worship sense. (Although I do like nature quite a lot, I don't worship anything.) He's trying to say that a competing religion is being imposed on our youth, so that he can cry unfair that he isn't being allowed to do the same. He's not looking out for children - he's jealous because he's being deprived of valuable brain washing opportunities. But here's the thing, not only is atheism not a religion, it isn't a philosophy either. Atheists don't universally agree on anything that I'm aware of. There are anti-choice atheists, conservative atheists, atheists in fox holes, pole dancing atheists, anti-porn crusader atheists... We come in all flavors. We have no unifying dogma we are trying to impose on anyone, even if some of us would really, really like it if you would just put down the holy book and take a couple of deep breaths.

In keeping with this pronouncement, these books teach molecules-to-man evolution, based only on unproven natural processes, as fact! In other words, they have eliminated the supernatural and replaced it with naturalism. In reality, they have eliminated the Christian worldview and replaced it with a secular, atheistic one!

Dude, calm down. You made so many false equations in that mini rant, I'm a bit concerned about the state of your heart. Chill. There is nothing nefarious about the teaching of science in science class (nor history in history class, despite what the Texas State Board of Education may claim.) The theory of evolution - what Ken here is really concerned with - is true. That's why it gets taught in science class and goddidit doesn't. It's not religious persecution, and it's not government sponsored atheist religion. It's just a matter of which one is science and which one is bullshit.

Sadly, because many Christians have falsely believed that there can be a neutral position, and have also been duped regarding the so-called “separation of church and state,” they are not prepared to boldly and unashamedly stand on the Word of God as they confront issues like abortion, “gay” marriage, racism, etc. By shrinking back, believers have allowed the secularists to impose their anti-God atheistic religion on the public schools—and the culture as a whole.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Did he just say racism? He wants to stand on the Word of God? (I guess he means the Bible, but I've already explained why I don't think Christians should call it that.) The Bible says you can kill and enslave anyone who's not a fellow Jew! The Bible is immoral and outdated and false! And you want to use this book to control my uterus, tell my friends they can't be a family, and be bigoted and racist? Well, fuck you!

Answers in Genesis has launched its “I am Not Ashamed” campaign to challenge Christians to publicly and unashamedly stand on the Word of God. Only then, from the basis of the Bible’s absolute authority, will Christians be able to effectively combat the immorality that plagues our nation.

Wow. Imagine how big of a prick you can be, if you think you have absolute authority in your hand? Case in point: Ken Ham.

What a douche nozzle.

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Angie on TV & Radio

I've done several podcast appearances lately, and haven't provided any of the links (oops!) so let me amend that now.

I was on the ThinkAtheist radio show hosted by my good Twitter buddy @Synthaetica (or Synth for short) a couple of times. The February 28th episode on "The Week in Review" is here. I was also on the March 7th episode.

I was invited on Third Wave Radio and Infidel Guy, but neither show has put up the audio yet. (Sad face goes here.)

Issues for Your Tissues, hosted by Katie Vitale, did two episodes on the #livetweetingabortion issue. For the first episode, Mary Ann Sorrentino (whose slut-shaming "abortion is irresponsible but I'm a pro-choice warrior, really!" piece appeared on Salon.com) came on to explain her viewpoint and reveal her ignorance of how Twitter works. Yesterday, I was able to respond and Katie has already uploaded that audio. (Thanks Katie!)

As for mainstream media, here are my TV spots for ABC News and CNN (stupid embedding disabled by request!)

That's all for now folks!

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4 new atheists so far

I just got an email from a girl who deconverted. She's been struggling with why god hates her so much for loving another woman, and wanting to let go of god for awhile. Then she saw my video on Sunday School and what I said about children being taught they are flawed, evil, sinful and wrong was exactly what she needed to hear.

"That was why I couldn't get away from god. Because deep down I was still that child in Sunday School being told again and again that I was sinful. And just like that, sitting here in my room and listening to your video, all my fear about hell and god went away. What's left is a woman free to live her life without fear."

Epic just isn't a powerful enough word. Stellar maybe? A YouTube video did the trick for me; it's why I do videos myself. Still, there's a world of difference between believing you're doing some good and knowing it.

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Latest Videos Jan 2010

I've organized the last month's videos that don't appear elsewhere on the blog here, in terms of videos about my cult vs videos about atheism or my life as an atheist or secular humanist. If you'd prefer to watch these in order of upload date, head on over to my YouTube channel and subscribe. (Actually, please go do that anyway, and maybe rate some videos while you're over there.)

On Atheism

Arguing against the assertion that atheism is "a belief in a nonbelief" (I kid you not)



I take on some atheist parenting questions I get from viewers (a less discriminating bunch than my readers, when taken as a whole.)



On My Cult

My thoughts on the Word of Faith teachings and how well those work out in real life



Anteaters, you already know how I became an atheist but if you'd like to hear the story with audio & facial expressions, this is the format for you.



So today I wanted to talk about Giggy's cult & Attleboro. (Okay, technically this one wasn't from January but consider it an early promo.)



Uh yeah, it was my birthday on the 28th so that's what these two videos reference.



(You should still totally take me up on the Baptism Challenge!)

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What's the point?

It bugs me that people even ask this question.



Biography post coming later today, as well as promotions & the (belated) Charity of the Month.

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The High Cost of Fame

I haven't had much time to write on the blog lately. Partly that's been because of life stuff & a disrupted schedule & a child home from school & starting a YouTube channel, but a lot of it has been that it takes me a couple of hours a day to go through my email. Between comments here (which I've sadly had to add moderation to after a few banned commenters discovered anonymizers), comments on YouTube, messages on Facebook, comments on Facebook, moderating ExCult Network, direct emails, Think Atheist comments...

So, if I take a while to get to your email, I apologize. I'll do what I can. It used to be I could knock out all my overnight emails in half an hour or an hour while I woke up, and then have plenty of time to write. As Angie the Anti-Theist has expanded, uh, I guess I've become a little stretched thin. The whole point of all this is to write the book, to get my story and the story of other cult kids out there. So of all the things on my plate, email is the one that's gonna have to move to the side a bit (and yes, Farmville, too. I know, it's *tragic*.)

In the meantime, check out a few of the less pleasant comments I got on my YouTube channel today (and feel free to drop by & subscribe or vote me up, hint-hint!)

you atheist bitch! REPENT NOW!!!!

on 9/11 i had the biggest fucking wank ever. you stupid fucking american cunts deserved that shit.

i laughed when TJ's dad died as well... that shit was hilarious.... but the icing on the fucking cake was when I found out he had been molested as a child. what a fucking fat loser! lol

when you look at the creation of the universe. you see INTELLIGENT DESIGN. we did not come from a puddle of goo and microorganisms. there is No proof of that. you god awful stupid bitch

ofc it's not a religion you ugly dike!

I feel sorry for the poor deluded maker of this video, not to mention the many young & impressionable kids who will be led into a life of crime and rampant anti-social behaviour after being brainwashed, I mean, indoctrinated, by it.

no Atheism is NOT a Religion its garbage that people think because theyre skeptick
thats who the athest are skepticks who bother the hell out of people who have a Religion and one guy i know laughs if if find out if you belive omg you have a falth how upserd hahahaha
you know what athest (some) belive that they come back as a tree or another person how stupid does that sound

True...they build their whole lives around disbelief. They offer "nothing" in it's place. It's like voting against something, instead of FOR something. Sounds just lazy. ((Like gay marriage, you asshole?))

YOUR ALL GOING TO HELL YOU ATHEIST QUEERS!!!!!!!!!!!! atheist = faggots You're gonna eat your babies!

I am not a troll, I hate trolls. I am here spreading God's love and compassion and you atheists hate the truth so you act like assholes.

You can see what a good God he is. A lot of people have the term "curse" very confused. God doesn't actively curse or damn anyone. A curse is actually what happens to us when we lack God. Because if we push him away and curse him He cannot cover us because we don't allow him. So when this happens we're under a curse...

You have the «Don't believe in God» God.
So, if a christian has a «Believe in God» God, where is the difference?

Real brain trusts, huh?

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Atheism is NOT a Religion (Really)

So, YouTube ate my first two videos, but after I recorded this third one, it coughed up the second one also. So, I have two videos that are pretty similar but I like this one slightly more.



Here's the second.



So what's your vote, Anteaters? Which do I keep on my channel?

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From my Facebook Inbox

From: [Name Redacted]
Subject: damn

can you change your profile pict because you are just to damn hot, i get little done when your pict is up! lol. happy new year!!!!!! :D

Do you think Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins deal with this crap? I know PZ Myers gets squid porn in his inbox, but I don't know how many come-ons Daniel Dennet has to turn down (or chooses not to, for that matter.)

So, Anteaters, what is your opinion in this? Is my totally-covering all my skin except arms, neck, face, and *gasp* shoulders avatar too revealing? Is it my job to be less attractive so I won't distract him, or is it his job to *turn off Facebook* when he's at work?

This is the same logic, taken to an extreme I'll grant you, that justifies forced wearing of veils and burqas.

Today's image is Lil Kim in her concept of a burqa for One World Magazine.

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Adam & Eve, the Snake & the Tree

I promise to be a better blogger as soon as winter break is over & my child leave my house for 7 hours a day again. Till then, make do with this.

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Christmas Eve

I've been dealing with a lot of depression. I think it's safe to say I need another trip to the doc to check on my meds & see which one of them is making me feel like this (and if it's likely to get better over time or if I should quit taking one/all of them)

And of course, my mother is ... her. I want to call her a cunt or a bitch or detail all the ways in which she failed me - how she neglected me, never protected me, allowed me to be abused for years, for convenience, how she made me feel guilty for being born & inconveniencing her with the burden of my life.

But part of me wishes I was at her house right now, drinking mimosas and eating bagels, opening Christmas gifts with my huge, loud, smiling family (who celebrate on the 24th and not the 25th.)

Happy holidays, right? Bah humbug.

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Sorry I Knocked

These videos aren't new. I found them the same week I stumbled across WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com and bought a copy of "God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchens. I found them a month after I realized I'd been raised in a cult, and they were profoundly helpful to me. I think just about everything I've done in the past year and a half can be credited to those sources of inspiration and more. I'm awed by the strength and grace of Aayan Hirsi Ali, of Carolyn Jessop, of Astra & Jenna Miscavige. I'm thankful for the four horsemen, for their thinking and analyzing, for the beautiful words and illustration they've crafted. I'm thankful to the Atheist Community of Austin, for being such a positive example of how atheists, with our disparate views, can work together to provide social opportunities for a marginalized minority.

So here they are, the Sorry I Knocked videos that lit the anti-theist fire in my belly.

I gotta say, the Bengal tiger does sound cool. Also, this poor woman has a ton of JW spam in her comments, so show her some love from ATAT, okay?

Hope everything is going well in Internet World. I'll have my very own wifi connection (instead of the neighbor's hacked one) on the 24th so prepare to be tweeted! (@antitheistangie for those of you not already following)

Cheers!

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All I Want from Xmas

Anteaters, all I want for Xmas is your unwanted (new or second-hand!) Christian books. Send me your apologetics - the Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, CS Lewis, & Ray Comfort books your believing families give you in a well-meaning manipulative attempt to change who you are. (I say this as someone who once gave my husband a Bible & a Big Book of AA for Christmas gifts. I am familiar with the sometimes-loving motivation behind the well-meant gift of guilt.)

This year I actually want all those books, but there's no way I'm spending money on them, to support tax-free churches and pastors. So please, please, if you get one of these books and want to set it on fire, can you lend it to me for a couple months first? I'd love to debunk the bigger names & better known books (I'm looking at you Purpose-Driven Life.

Email me if you get these books & I'll give you a shipping address to send them to. I'll be posting a mention of you by name or screen name (or not if you're still in the atheist closet) along with debunkment series for each book I receive. Do a good deed for an atheist this winter :)










* If you request your book to be burned after reading, I will happily do so on camera & upload the video to YouTube. Just let me know.

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ATAT Fundraiser

Okay folks, I'm in a financial bind. It looks like there's going to be a one week gap between being evicted from my craptastic apartment and the rental house being ready for us to move in. Between that and all the usual expenses of moving, I'd be truly appreciative if anyone is able to help. (Also if you have good short-term solutions for me, I'd love to hear them.)

You can, as always, donate via PayPal online or by phone by clicking on the yellow Donate button in the top right hand corner. You can also help support ATAT by purchasing a product from my new CafePress store. I recommend the "Go Psalm Yourself" series, inspired by this post.

Sorry to be all televangelist in monetary requests, but I promise this will not go to defending pedophiles, infringing on gay rights, or keeping condoms out of the hands of Africans.



See? I'm not claiming a higher power wants you to give me money. I just want you to (so, no pressure or worries about smiting!)

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Your Stories

I don't get hate mail. I can't tell if that means I'm not pushing enough buttons, I am pushing buttons but I'm doing it diplomatically, or I'm just not having that large of an impact. But I've gotten several letters, through email or facebook or twitlonger, that have really moved me. One family is working on financially separating themselves so that they can afford to leave the cult they no longer believe in. A young man asked me how he can help the girl he loves, who belongs to a conservative Christian sect and who loves him but thinks not believing is a sin. People have written about mental illness, eating disorders, and their own dysfunctional families. We have talked of all the most secret and shameful things, actions and motives and beliefs.

Thank you for trusting me with your stories and your secrets. Thank you for giving me the courage to keep writing, when I face something in my past that is dark or ugly or that I still carry shame for. Thank you for always reminding me that I am not completely alone, and that my story is not so different from someone else's. Sometimes I think the cult-indoctrinated sense of elitism makes it harder for me to believe anyone understands what I'm going through. Your letters cut right through that nonsense. Of course you understand. You've been there, too, whether it's the child abuse or the crappy marriage or the part-time job you hated, that first summer kiss, the freedom of a road trip, or how much you need your kids, my life is not out of sync with the rest of humanity anymore. I love you, Anteaters!

(Apparently mushiness is a side-effect of my new meds. It beats yesterday's paranoia though, so I'll take it.)

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One Laptop Per Child

I've been wanting to add a couple new features to ATAT. I'm a big believer in forming an atheist community, not just outlets for intellectual expression, but also for forming friendships and establishing some of the social context for discussing all kids of issues, not just those about the first amendment, or biology, or Mormons, or his noodly appendage.

One of the most positive benefits I experienced from church community* was the share sense of responsibility for mankind. This was in the post-cult, Vineyard and Episcopalian years, but even as a young girl I enjoyed picking which charity I wanted to give my weekly ten cent tithe to. So I've been thinking a lot about how we could incorporate some of those same conversations about giving an charity and the good work we contribute to - with our finances, time, or energy - and kind of remind the world that we care, too. Not having any gods hasn't stopped us from caring about others; many of us who used to believe feel a more pressing need to take care of the most vulnerable on our planet, since we no longer think their struggles or suffering will all be made right in an afterlife.

November is breast cancer awareness month, and I lost my godmother - the most kind and affectionate maternal figure I had - to breast cancer April 19, 2007 and it still hurts. But I'm seeing myself more and more as someone who champions children's rights and children's causes So, while I'm sure the folks at the Susan G. Koman Foundation would be glad of a donation, this month I've decided to feature One Laptop Per Child.

The mission of One Laptop per Child (OLPC) is to empower the children of developing countries to learn by providing one connected laptop to every school-age child. In order to accomplish our goal, we need people who believe in what we’re doing and want to help make education for the world’s children a priority, not a privilege.

OLPC’s mission is to provide a means for learning, self-expression, and exploration to the nearly two billion children of the developing world with little or no access to education. While children are by nature eager for knowledge, many countries have insufficient resources to devote to education—sometimes less than $20 per year per child (compared to an average of $7,500 in the United States). By giving children their very own connected XO laptop, we are giving them a window to the outside world, access to vast amounts of information, a way to connect with each other, and a springboard into their future. And we’re also helping these countries develop an essential resource—educated, empowered children.

The internet led me to atheism. Google helped me discover my grandmother was a cult leader. The pro-anorexia movement, for all its faults, kept me alive and somewhat sane during the darkest years of my life. We all know how empowering the internet can be, and how much someone with little money can learn - and how connected they can be with other ideas and other people - if they have access to the free information and communication on the web.

For everyone who wished you could donate to the Atheist Association of Uganda, here is one way you can help children in Uganda and other parts of the world, living amidst superstition, war, and ignorance. If you have the funds and would like to support this charity, you can go here to donate to One Laptop per Child. For $199 US you can buy a laptop for a child in th developing world (which used to called third-world.) If you'd like to promote this charity yourself, I'd greatly appreciate it. I think this is a wonderful secular charity with goals we can all get behind.


*I said it was a positive aspect of the community, not the religion so don't get all excited, theist readers :)

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Angry Rant on Atheists

Fuck Atheist Nexus. I'm done with catty bitches. #outatheist (Sun 25 Oct 11:07 am)

Okay, so I typed that in a moment of anger. A familiar one. It's the feeling I get anytime I'm involved in a discussion on Atheist Nexus. The same five people (you know who you are) continually put words in my mouth, ascribe untrue motives to my action, feign offense at every other word I type, sexually harras me (hey bozo - the fact that you find ME sexually attractive does not mean I want to hear about the size of your penis, your ideas on women in the home, your plan of an atheist uprising centered on freethinking women as Quiverfull broodmares, or how sexy you find me! I. am. not. attracted. to. YOU.)

I think Brother Richard's a great guy and I admire what he's trying to do with Atheist Nexus. I've met a lot of cool people on the Nexus and I hope they'll stay in contact through my blog or by email (angieantitheist@ gmail [dot] com). By no means do I think these five asshats are representative of the whole. But they are mouthy long-winded motherfuckers and I don't go to ATHEIST websites to get stressed out. I can do that just fine on apologetics sites and end time prophecy screeds.

So yeah. Fuck A/N. I'll leave my profile up so people can send me emails or see this note or whatever. If the mods delete it or this post, so be it. I am through. I really wanted it to work out. But the freelance of "don't pick on the white dude!", "let's conquer the world through your uterus", "having to pay child support is just as bad as going through pregnancy/labor/birth so abortion shouldn't be legal until I can quit paying my ex", "meat-eaters are going to vegan hell" and "my life sucks, sob sob, whine and do jack shit about it" I am done.

(Since I try really hard to rarely curse on this blog, I hope my invective indicates just how DONE I really fucking am.)

Roar. And now today's Bujold quote, from Mirror Dance.

It seemed he could trust them, not so much not to hurt him, but to be what they were, what they appeared. He could not at first put a word to it, this sense of personal unity. Then it came to him. Oh. So that's what integrity looks like. I didn't know.

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Faith

From Dictionary.com Faith (noun)

1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

I got into a recent good-natured comment debate with a reader who says she has faith in god, and that faith itself is good (or at least neutral - I'm not actually sure of her position here), but that she opposes organized religion. She thinks god interacts in her daily life, but that reason and logic are sufficient most of the time. However, she does support occassionally doing things that fly in the face of logic and reason, based on feelings (which she stresses are not the same as emotions), and claims that this is a good thing in her life.

So, let's explore faith. I've copied the eight noun definitions of Faith here, so I can let you - my readers - know exactly what I mean when I rail against faith, and why I say that faith is not a virtue, it is a vice. Definitions 1, 4, 6, and 7 relate to entirely to the natural world, and are therefore not what I (as a skeptic, atheist, and critical thinker) object to. Obviously, I could say I believe in secular humanism or have faith in it, although I'd be more like to say that I subscribe to secular humanism, and that I think (based on evidence, not faith) that it is a good way to live.

The second definition "belief that is not based on proof" is certainly something I find reprehensible and dangerous. If I believe a gnome steals the socks out of my dryer, I am delusional. I am believing something - or having faith in something - without evidence. I haven't seen the gnome; scientists have not confirmed the existence of gnomes; the vast majority of (if not all) gnomes are fictional. Without actually gnome evidence, it would be fool hearty to believe I had a dryer gnome even if my socks continue to disappear. I have no reason to suppose that the gnome explanation is the best one. I haven't explored other possibilities for why my socks are gone, and I've jumped to a supernatural or fictional answer as my first guess, rather than looking at the natural physical possibilities that fit in with the rest of my experience of reality.

Likewise, believing in a god that has not even been proven to exist, much less beliving in certain aspects or character traits of that god, is just as fool hearty. There is absolutely no difference in the evidence presented for god and for the dryer gnome. (If you think you have evidence for either, please leave a comment!) However, the dryer gnome belief may be fairly innocuous. I might successfully live my whole life without harming myself or others, infringing on the rights of minorities, or imposing my dryer gnome belief on others. God belief is rarely so benign.

The third definition, "belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion" can be thought of as extension of the second. Since no gods have ever been proven to exist, this further faith in a god or the doctrines or teachings of a religion worshiping that god, is built on a foundation of "no proof". It is just as stupid as believing in the dryer gnome. There is no evidence, no proof, no reason to believe that this is true. And unlike intellectually sloppy but rarely cataclysmic belief of a deist, this is theistic belief, which does harm. Some belief systems may be gentler, or less legalistic, or less wicked than others. Some particular religions or religious congregations or religious individuals may do good, and may ascribe that good to their religion. Neither of these things changes the fact that religion is foolish, harmful, and degrading to humanity. (There is no god - get the fuck up off your knees.*)

The problem is religious belief and belief in god do effect people's actions. It can lead people to trust untrustworthy people, as seen time and time and time again with despicable clergy sex scandals. It can lead whole groups to treat women and children as property, and it can lead the women to go along with this. It can lead loving parents to pray their children to death. It can (and does) justify homicide and terrorism. It can (and does) justify child abuse. It can (and does) justify the subjugation of women. Why aren't people MORE pissed off about this kind of "faith"?

Moving on. Definition 5 "a system of religious beliefs" can be effectively covered by the last rant (and is also an extension of definition 2.)

Definition 8 is probably the one I spend the most time on, in this blog and in my life. "Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved." Christian theology is inherently wicked. I am not saying - and probably never would say - that all Christians are inherently wicked. Unlike them, I don't believe people are born guilty of sin and deserving of hell and death.**

I don't think humans need a justification or salvation - we're doing fine. Where we need to make improvements, let's make improvements. Where we're doing well, let's do more of that! And where we're dragging ourselves back into the Dark Ages, let's just stop it. Stop with the religious nonsense, the persecution, the notion of thought crimes. Just stop. If we give up all this theological bullshit and belief in things that aren't true and believe without good justification, we can get things done. We - humans - have the power and ability to improve our lots in life, and to help each other. That's phenomenal! Let's do more of it. Let's learn and grow and change and try new things and help our fellow apes and try not to destroy our planet. Faith keeps you stagnant, childlike, ignorant and foolish. It keeps you from growing, from expirmenting, from being free and autonomous and grown up.

So, to any and all who believe that faith is still a good thing, or who still believes in a good god, where do you think my socks are? And because I feel odd to leave a song on a minor chord, or a post on a meaningful point, I'll deflect from the moment with comedy.



Do you have more evidence for your god than Mr. Bean has for his invisible drum kit?







*Or help me catch this damn gnome. I seriously don't know where my socks are going, and it's annoying.

**On a side note, at this point in the post I went to go swap our TV for a bigger one from a neighbor - and nearly brought the entire entertainment center down on me. Heart beat = epic. (And yet what I yelled out was "My god... or somebody else's!")

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Evangelical Atheism

My mom read this post and this one. And I think I'm starting to get to her. At the very least, I'm getting her to admit that her beliefs don't come from the Bible, which is actually a pretty big deal. (I love that I know the Bible well enough to call someone out on something.)

We did have this one point of contention. She stated something about God being out of time and space, and I pointed out that I don't think that's anywhere in the scriptures. There were a few other times she used, perhaps a CS Lewis analogy, and had to admit that it as well was just an idea of what God *might* be like, and not what was stated so explicitly in the book.

We talked about Eden, and she said it showed God's relationship with mankind. She talked about how it says he walked with them in the evenings, and he loved them and made the world for them. I told her it showed me that God's relationship with mankind was punitive - they did something he didn't like so he punished them and all their future descendants forever.

Very little is actually said about the afterlife, so my mom had to concede that her decision to hope that there was perhaps (like the Mormon's) some secondary testing ground after death, wasn't based on scripture. She said in response to John 3:18, "Well, we're not told what 'believe in his name' means for people who've never heard the gospel." (And hey, if people who've never heard the gospel go to heaven, or at least aren't doomed to hell like people who hear and don't believe, then stop telling people about it! If ignorance is innocence in God's eyes, then proselytizing is the most evil action; it sends the most people to hell. But I didn't get to this point with her.)

I really think that all I have to do is convince her that Yawhew is not morally good, and I think my mom would be an atheist. Trouble is, she's made a conscious choice (and admits that it is such) to see God as being all good and all loving, and to try to make the facts fit it.

I do think my mom is someone with exceptional intelligence. Her faith is neither literalist nor fundamentalist, though it is very important to her. She has thought about theological questions, and read GK Chesterton and CS Lewis and St. Augustine, but as I pointed out to her today, the problem with apologetics is that they are written to reaffirm the faith of someone who already accepts all the propositions as true. If you don't accept them, then the argument isn't compelling, and I think the complete lack of compelling argument, and the fact that God's existence is even debatable at all, is either a failure on his part, or an indication that He (personal Yahweh god) doesn't exist.

Since she values honesty, and values truth, and does not want to worship a god that is powerful but not good, I think these inconsistencies between her own beliefs and values (which are more liberal and loving) and the Bible's (which are barbaric and inhumane) will start to bother her. She'll want to reconcile things, and since faith and reason *can't be* reconciled, eventually I think she'll be an atheist.

The requisite part to go from belief to disbelief is a desire for truth. Once you care if what you believe is true, and are willing to lose beliefs if they are untrue, atheism naturally follows.

Here's the rough paraphrasing of the conversation we just had on the problem of pain.

Her: Well some people believe (I think she was talking about Classical Greeks actually) that the greatest good is in the spiritual world, and so a certain amount of suffering in this world is okay, if it's going to make the next one better.

Me: But god is omnipotent. What does suffering in this world have to do with how the next world will be? (Seriously, the idea that god had to make a crappy earth for heaven to seem cool is not a huge selling point for heaven.)

Her: Well that's where the idea of "the last shall be first"comes from. So the people who have suffered the most, for eternity they'll [have it best or something - I can't remember her exact words].

Me: Well, then I guess we shouldn't try to make things better for people in the here and now, because we're just robbing them of future glory in heaven.

Her: No, obviously not. There are some Christians like Gig who just think the end of the world will come sooner if it gets a whole lot worse -

Me: (interrupting, because I'm really bad about that) - Yes, and there is a whole large faction of American Christianity devoted to that, including the rampantly pro-Israel crowd.

Her: Sure. But most Christians don't act that way. They build hospitals and give to charity and stopped Chinese foot-binding (this info-byte is probably from Open Doors or one of the other missionary-abroad charities she gives to.) Jesus said in the final judgment we'll be judged on did you feed the hungry, did you care for the widow.

Me: Okay, so if God cares about alleviating suffering in the here and now, if it's important enough that it's what he told us to do, why doesn't he do it? He's omnipotent. How can he be omnipotent and all-loving, and have this world?

That's just a fragment of the intense hour-long theological debate I just had with my mother. I feel like an atheist rock star right now. Let me make one thing perfectly clear - I am an evangelical atheist. I make no bones about it (except when being stealthy on Facebook, or posing as an LDS-neutral guy on Mormon chats.) You can blame the evangelical culture for that. I was instilled with a sense of responsibility for the souls of everyone I came in contact with. Now that I think we don't have souls, or immortality, I want to unsave those people - and free them from the guilt, hatred, and intellectual dishonesty of faith, belief, and religion.

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Triple Score Bonus Points

For a day that started with me waking up twenty minutes late, today has been awesome! In response to my earlier post on stealth atheism, a Facebook game friend has let me know she's been reading my posts and they're inspiring her to think deeply about her faith. I'm a huge fan of thinking. I try to do some of it every day. :)

Based on a lot of deep theological (yet painfully respectful) conversations we've been having, my mother has agreed to read one of my counter-apologetics (minus the swear words) and let me know what she thinks of both what the Christian said and my objections. This is a pretty big deal, since I only told her I was an atheist maybe six or eight months ago, and at the time we agreed to not talk about god or religion at all (which proved impossible, as we're both working through the spiritual abuse done to us by her mother, and in many respects there's no one better to talk to).

In a conversation we had yesterday, I got her to agree that even if a god exists, it matters whether or not that god is good. It started from talking about Elisha and the she-bears. I said, "Does God say things because they're good, or are the good because he said so, and he just called everything he didn't like sin? If good and evil exist outside of God, and He's just conveying the message to us - not denying that that's important - than it is at least possible to know right from wrong without God. And if He the arbiter of right and wrong, than how can we judge God's actions to see if He is moral or immoral? Because otherwise, it's just might makes right, and I don't want to worship that god."

She agreed that this was of vital importance. But when presented with things that make no sense (problem of pain, et al) she said that the best explanation she'd heard for how to deal with this problem was from George MacDonald (one of my favorite writers as a Christian child - a Scottish priest and father who wrote loving and beautiful fairy tales and fantasy stories.) He said essentially that God is loving, and therefore even if things don't make sense, we know they must be out of a loving motive. I was rather pained to hear such a crappy argument from a guy I really like and rather respected. (And after reading those linked quotes, can't respect as a thinker anymore. "Attitudes are more important than facts." Ouch.)

I told my mom, "That's a very nice sentiment, but it's terrible logic. It's starting with a conclusion and trying to make the facts fit." She agreed (because I've spent the last year and a half - starting six months before I told her I was an atheist - teaching her about and getting her excited about critical thinking, logic, and rationality.) Today she agreed, on the basis of having a deep theological discussion, to read one of my counter-apologetics. I've got to pick one, and then copy/paste and tweak it into email format, minus some zombie Jesus jokes and swear words. Hey, I'll change the message for her, because I think she's ripe for some seeds of doubt, and I'm only too happy to oblige. Atheism has been such a positive in my life, and I'm so thankful to the people and videos and websites that were around to tell me about it, and to make me question my faith, that I want to do the same for others.

Which brings me to the happiest news of the day (or month). One of my readers, my fellow female-cult-leader-granddaughter, and friend DominoRed has made the transition from agnostic deist to atheist. :) Welcome to skepticism, disbelief, and rational thought, Red. It's actually a lot of fun (and the guys tend to be smarter and/or better educated - some are even feminists).

To all my readers who send emails and comments, thanks so much. I'm really glad to be able to explore these issues of faith, reality, and how we ought to treat each other with all of you. *bloglove!*

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Stealth Atheism

I play a few games on Facebook, like Farmville and Cafe World, where you get more points or advance faster in the game by having more friends who also play. Rather than harass my blog readers or the few family members who haven't un-Friended me yet with invitations to play, I added a whole bunch of other gamers to my Friends list.

And then I post things about atheism, and the First Amendment, and faith healing. Most of my game friends appear to be Christian. I can't tell you how many times someone has sent me an angel or a "God loves you" app invitation, or how many times I've seen "god's message to you" posted on someone's Facebook wall. (That one's actually hilarious, because it's always "In God we Trust" for everyone, and it's a picture of a freaking dime. So I get to comment and tell them how that's only been on the money since the 50s.)

The majority of these people might never knowingly befriend an atheist. I may be the first open atheist they've ever even slightly known. So, I try to use these annoying pro-Christian messages as an opportunity to let people know atheists are out there. I got an invitation today to join the group "Let God in Schools" *shudder*. Rather than just ignoring it, I sent this private message back to the woman.

Hi M,

I wanted to thank you for asking me to be involved. I'm actually a fierce defender of the 1st Amendment, which calls for separation of church and state. The government stays out of churches, and churches stay out of the government, including public schools (which includes children of all faiths and no faith at all).

I am an atheist myself, but I completely respect and will fight for your right to practice your religion respectfully. I would ask that you consider the imposition of god into school, if it was from some other religion. If Muslims were the dominant population in America, would you want the Koran taught in public schools, or would you want your children to be free to worship Jesus and read the Bible, and not be required to pay homage to Allah during school?

Again, thanks for the invitation. I enjoy being Facebook game buddies with you :)

Take care,
Angie

I spectifically used the Muslim argument, not to pit Christians against Muslims, but to put them in the atheist's shoes for a second, as the "other" from the group in power. And because it worked on my mom, who didn't see why I was complaining about my son being asked to sell "Bible Verses for Kids" as a school fundraiser, until I asked her how she'd feel about him selling "Koran Verses for Kids".

Now M. here might unfriend me. My family has shown me that's an option. She might ignore my note entirely. She might think about these things, and be a little less pushy about getting her faith in school - maybe she never considered it from another perspective before. And she may email me back with questions like, "What's an atheist?" or "But why can't we have god in school?"

I encourage you to engage in "stealth atheism" as well. Make friends or acquaintances with believers. Let them know you on some minimal level, and form an opinion of you based on your character, and then let them know "Oh yeah, I'm an atheist." It's not a dirty word; it's not inherently offensives; it's not even necessarily anti-religion (that's anti-theism folks, not atheism). And the more we just own up and claim the word and say, "Yup, we exist" the less marginalized we'll feel, AND the more some Christians will consider atheists and non-Christian theists in public policy. Not every Christian is a theocrat, so the better we can educate them on atheism, secular humanism, and non-religious ethics and morality, the less distrusted atheists will become.

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